I don’t miss the irony that it was the Friendly Atheist newsletter that alerted me to some research that Barna and others have done on the subject of pastoral succession and the question, “Will the church have pastors tomorrow?” I’ll cut to the chase.
the interesting article addresses an important issue, but it seems to stay on the surface and probably to ignore the broader picture.
(traditional) christianity in the western world generally is on a decline, the numbers of members is dwindling.
the reasons are manyfold.
and there is no quick–fix.
what i miss most in articles like that are different approaches to the problem; for instance, i would have expected sociology, systems theory, cybernetics, psychology, culture etc. which help to get a better grasp for the deeper lying problems.
also i would have expected a deeper look at those churches who grow, not through sheep stealing, but through real conversions.
the answers of of the article seem to me somewhat trivial.
would be interesting how they work out on the long term.
a professional qualified evaluation (from the viewpoint of organizational development) would be even more interesting.
what i see here look more or less like pious myths — as in pray more and harder, or believe more, etc.…
sorry to say.
i wish the author would have chosen a deeper, more academic approach instead of generalisms…
having said that, there are, however, correct observations.
we need to reach out for the younger ones, and give them the opportunity to mature, to try something out — and to fail (we need in general a high failure tolerance amongst our paid and non-paid staff).
those who lead need to to coach the younger ones.
back when i was a teacher, at a parent–teacher conference a young father once told me, in a fit of desperation:
"i really try to raise my kids right by telling them how to do things the right way — but then they just imitate me…“ (as in: how i live, how i speak and/or act…)
that was spot on.
the next generations learns by observing us…
…should make us think…
this applies to us as pastors as well as to all those who have a role or function in the congregation, and even to all members of the congregation – how do we treat each other, how do we treat others, including the younger and weaker ones, and how do we lead?
and are we able to step back from power games, and even give up power?
do we live our faith and act merciful to each other, are we willing to give each other the grace we’ve received from g–d?
that’s how we teach.
and we all know what it’s like in some of our congregations, how we treat each other…
…oh, well…
also, main questions of congregational development — which are essential part of the the broader picture — i miss in the article, like:
who are we - what makes us tick, and where are our strengths and weaknesses?
what are we here for, why has g–d sent us to this particular place - what is our task here in the community, for the community?
where do we actually want to go, and where do we want to be with our congregation in ten or twenty years; what kind of church community do we want to leave to our grandchildren?
but that’s probably just me.
(and apologies for my inchoate mastering of the english language — i usually understand more than i’m able to express; sorry for that.)
Thank you for your engaging comment. So much that is right in what you say. I suppose my tagline is true: often unprocessed, occasionally edited. Please keep engaged, and write an article that goes deeper.
usually many developments swap over from the u.s. over here; it's now interesting to see how much groundbreaking work is done over here, in ole europe (britain, germany…), now…
it's good to see that over there the debate starts, too.
Agreed! I linked to Church of England resources on both "minster" partnerships and Resource Churches, and am deeply grateful for the concept of mixed ecology. I am so grateful for researchers and practitioners like you from parts of the world that have experienced ministry and mission in a post-Christendom context for longer, and with a deeper impact. Americans (me included) have SO much to learn.
I'm on the more practitioner scale. A local parish pastor, with a clear calling to identify and equip the next generation of leaders in the church.
I will say that when I mention prayer as the priority, it is more than piety... My experience is this: when the church starts praying strategically and earnestly, God gets our attention. Our affections are bent toward his agenda. That atmosphere is a rich one for cultivating vocation.
Your university looks like it is doing many creative and faithful things. I'm so glad you commented here. Thank you.
Thank you for this post! I appreciated seeing it in the "LCMC By The Word" newsletter that arrived yesterday. Now I'm trying to figure out how Substack works ;-) I am an "older" LCMC seminary student at ILT. God's blessings! Bill Gross
the interesting article addresses an important issue, but it seems to stay on the surface and probably to ignore the broader picture.
(traditional) christianity in the western world generally is on a decline, the numbers of members is dwindling.
the reasons are manyfold.
and there is no quick–fix.
what i miss most in articles like that are different approaches to the problem; for instance, i would have expected sociology, systems theory, cybernetics, psychology, culture etc. which help to get a better grasp for the deeper lying problems.
also i would have expected a deeper look at those churches who grow, not through sheep stealing, but through real conversions.
the answers of of the article seem to me somewhat trivial.
would be interesting how they work out on the long term.
a professional qualified evaluation (from the viewpoint of organizational development) would be even more interesting.
what i see here look more or less like pious myths — as in pray more and harder, or believe more, etc.…
sorry to say.
i wish the author would have chosen a deeper, more academic approach instead of generalisms…
having said that, there are, however, correct observations.
we need to reach out for the younger ones, and give them the opportunity to mature, to try something out — and to fail (we need in general a high failure tolerance amongst our paid and non-paid staff).
those who lead need to to coach the younger ones.
back when i was a teacher, at a parent–teacher conference a young father once told me, in a fit of desperation:
"i really try to raise my kids right by telling them how to do things the right way — but then they just imitate me…“ (as in: how i live, how i speak and/or act…)
that was spot on.
the next generations learns by observing us…
…should make us think…
this applies to us as pastors as well as to all those who have a role or function in the congregation, and even to all members of the congregation – how do we treat each other, how do we treat others, including the younger and weaker ones, and how do we lead?
and are we able to step back from power games, and even give up power?
do we live our faith and act merciful to each other, are we willing to give each other the grace we’ve received from g–d?
that’s how we teach.
and we all know what it’s like in some of our congregations, how we treat each other…
…oh, well…
also, main questions of congregational development — which are essential part of the the broader picture — i miss in the article, like:
who are we - what makes us tick, and where are our strengths and weaknesses?
what are we here for, why has g–d sent us to this particular place - what is our task here in the community, for the community?
where do we actually want to go, and where do we want to be with our congregation in ten or twenty years; what kind of church community do we want to leave to our grandchildren?
but that’s probably just me.
(and apologies for my inchoate mastering of the english language — i usually understand more than i’m able to express; sorry for that.)
Thank you for your engaging comment. So much that is right in what you say. I suppose my tagline is true: often unprocessed, occasionally edited. Please keep engaged, and write an article that goes deeper.
thanks.
i already did since i was lecturing and researching at university about these things, and also was an organisational developer.
this is where i worked:
https://ieeg.uni-greifswald.de/en/
usually many developments swap over from the u.s. over here; it's now interesting to see how much groundbreaking work is done over here, in ole europe (britain, germany…), now…
it's good to see that over there the debate starts, too.
Agreed! I linked to Church of England resources on both "minster" partnerships and Resource Churches, and am deeply grateful for the concept of mixed ecology. I am so grateful for researchers and practitioners like you from parts of the world that have experienced ministry and mission in a post-Christendom context for longer, and with a deeper impact. Americans (me included) have SO much to learn.
I'm on the more practitioner scale. A local parish pastor, with a clear calling to identify and equip the next generation of leaders in the church.
I will say that when I mention prayer as the priority, it is more than piety... My experience is this: when the church starts praying strategically and earnestly, God gets our attention. Our affections are bent toward his agenda. That atmosphere is a rich one for cultivating vocation.
Your university looks like it is doing many creative and faithful things. I'm so glad you commented here. Thank you.
Thank you for this post! I appreciated seeing it in the "LCMC By The Word" newsletter that arrived yesterday. Now I'm trying to figure out how Substack works ;-) I am an "older" LCMC seminary student at ILT. God's blessings! Bill Gross
Thank you Bill--Every blessing to you in your studies!